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Understanding the Spirit Realm: An Interview with Antonio R. Garcez (2009)

This interview with Antonio from 2009 dives into his unique viewpoints on the supernatural as an Indigenous man with a penchant for the paranormal.


Antonio R. Garcez at a book sale for his famed ghost story books.

Introduction:

I was driving to Antonio Garcez’s house, getting lost on the curvaceous, and narrow

dirt roads. My mind began to wonder about this man who prolifically writes about ghosts

and spirits. I questioned myself, “What kind of person will I encounter”?

I began to get butterflies in my stomach as I gazed at the dark clouds forming in the

sky and listened to the raindrops tap- tapping on my car. I started to think, ”Maybe I

should just turn around and head for home”. Another voice in my head said,” No, you

chicken, you have to complete your mission, you have no choice.” Well, “I’m a brave

person, I’ll call for directions”. There was an eerie crackling sound on my cell phone. A

mysterious voice answered, “Your getting closer”.


Q. Antonio, where and when were you born?

A. I was born and raised in East Los Angeles, during a period of time when the arts,

poetry, dance, music, song, and the written word were just blossoming. East Los Angeles

was a hotbed of culture back in the 1960’s and 70’s.


Q. Can you describe your background in native culture?

A. I didn’t have far to go, my parents were Native American. My mother was raised

in southern New Mexico and her father was Mesquellero Apache. They lived off the

Apache reservation in a very old, little village called La Mesa. Chili fields and pecan

orchards surrounded it.


My father’s mother was Otomi, which is an ancient culture from Mexico. Otomi is

the standard title used for this particular nation of indigenous people. Their word for

themselves is Nia-Nu. They are the direct descendents of the Toltec people.

Not many people know about the Nia-Nu culture, so when I’m asked about it I always

say, “The Nia-Nu are the Toltecs, and you are in the presence of America’s royalty.” The

Toltec blood literally runs through my veins”.


Q. Did your ancestors, influence you and your writing about the spiritual realm?

A. Yes, my grandfather who was Apache used to put me on his lap, he had a

harmonica and he’d sing and play Apache songs. My mom would be sitting at the kitchen

table and she would say to my grandfather, tell your grandson the story about the bear or

the snake. I was like a sponge as a kid. I listened to all of this and I retained all of this

information. My grandfather would take me out to his acreage that he farmed with a

wheel, a horse, and a hoe. He taught me how to plant the Indian way, how many kernels

of corn to put in the ground according to the phase of the moon and what to say as you’re

doing this.


They would tell me, don’t do this or you’ll attract this. If you want this to happen, do

this in an honorable way. Always take the time throughout the day and go into the

bedroom, close the doors, turn off the TV, phone off the hook and meditate to your

parents and your grandparents. Before you eat a meal thank them. If you’re walking and

you see something beautiful, always say, “ Isn’t that beautiful? Are you seeing this as I

see it through my eyes”? Let them know you’ve not forgotten them and that you honor

them in your own way. My mom and dad did this all the time and so did I.

There was no differentiation from our living state and the spiritual. My grandparents

and parents were always reverent towards the unseen, and they taught this to me. They

told me to never assume things are what they appear to be. I was taught to treat ghosts or

spirits with respect, to never make fun of them, entice them, or use derogatory language.

My writing is reflective of this.


Q. How do you compare native ghost stories to those of the general culture?

A. Let’s start with similarities. Native people are the same as anyone else. In the

living state they celebrate, suffer, cry, are joyful, and have the same idiosyncrasies as the

world population. They have the same life experiences and in turn the same

manifestations in the death process or post death process.

Where they differ is this. Native Americans will translate spirits through semiotics.

You’ll find symbols everywhere in our culture; weavings of Navajo rugs, jewelry, story

telling, rock art, everything.


For example if a native spirit was to come back to a family as the sound of a

scratching bear on the door, it would be recognized as a male. If a blue butterfly appears,

that would be a female and it’s your grandmother because blue was her favorite color.


A non native spirit will come in other cultural forms such as: a knocking on the door,

a relative’s favorite book being thrown off the shelf, the smell of your uncle’s cigar or

your mother’s perfume. Spirits don’t loose their culture when they go to the other side.


Q. Why do you use the word unseen, when referring to ghosts and spirits?

A. I like to use the word unseen, as a generalization. When I lecture, I tell people, “do

not get locked into your own ego and need for description. In the world of the unseen,

this description doesn’t exist”. The English language and vocabulary is very limited in

this way. How can we specifically define the unseen?


We can only describe what we experience. If anybody tells you they know what a

ghost or a spirit is, run as if your hair is on fire! No one knows. They only have symbolic

glimpses, feelings, thoughts, impressions, sensations, and energy levels.


For example, if there’s a drawer that opens or something that flies across the room,

that’s symbolic of what’s behind the energy that threw it. If you hear a voice or feel hand

caressing you, that’s symbolic of what’s behind that energy.

Sometimes spirits can be very selfish about what they want to give you. It takes a lot

of energy for them to show themselves. Perhaps they’ll just manifest a voice, a sound, a

simple stroke or flick of a hair, a tug on your clothing or something like that. The more

malevolent ones will go beyond this and will scratch, hit, and do negative things. That’s

symbolic of something that’s not positive.


Q. Are there negative or evil ghosts?

A. Yes, they recognize the superficiality of human existence. We’re not here very

long, and they know that. They want to do whatever they can in the quickest amount of

time to get their message across; which is, we need you, join our forces.


They have hot chocolate and cookies waiting, enticements, which seem very

appealing. Do you want money, love, to get back at someone? You’ll get it or if it doesn’t

happen they’ll make you think it will. It’s all in the way they manipulate an individual.

Just to win one person over is so wonderful for them. If they can get a couple, a family,

or a group, it’s all the better.


Q. Do spirits manifest because they’ve had an unfortunate death experience?

A. A violent death is only a possibility, not the direct cause. To say you’re going to

get an evil visitation from someone who hung himself in this house; how do you know?

Maybe it’s just a spirit who wants to see you and look at you in a longing way.

There are no clear-cut answers or parameters regarding the paranormal or the unseen.

We can only guess or make observations. There are as many reasons as there are human

experiences.


Q. Why can’t I see spirits?

A. People who know how to read these symbols and how to go beyond, did not just

wake up one day and say,” I’m want to be a shaman or a priestess. I think I’ll take a

class”. It doesn’t happen that way. If you think it does you’re only fooling yourself.

You have to do a lot of your own work, reading, and researching your ancestry. It’s in

this process where you gain most of your knowledge. You think about it, and you

masticate it in your mind. It can literally take years and a lot of life experiences to link

with what you’ve learned. It doesn’t happen instantaneously.


We still have the knowledge of the ancient people who have come before us. The

Greeks, Aztecs, Peruvians, and Polynesians. They all had there own form for telling

what’s going on and vision seeking. You can use their knowledge and sew it together to

make sort of paranormal quilt.


Q. Antonio, have you had experiences yourself?

A. Of course, I have them all the time. I wouldn’t be as thoroughly motivated to write

such books if I didn’t. I’ve had many experiences, from my childhood to where I am

today. My writing comes from my heart and soul.

When I do lectures, people often ask:

“Do you believe in ghosts”? I answer, “No, to believe is a matter of faith. I don’t

believe ghosts exist. I know they exist. Ghosts do exist”!

“Have you seen any ghosts”? I reply, “Yes, I’ve seen ghosts in many different forms

such as shadows, lights, touch, and talk”.

“How should one treat ghosts”? I say, “You treat them as you would any living

individual. They are what we are going to become, we are they and they are we. They’re

vibrating on a different level for lack of a better description, but nonetheless they are us”.

I don’t know all of the answers as to why they’re here, but I do have an interest in

ghosts and it is based completely on respect.


Q. Are you the first to write about American Indian Ghost stories?

A. Yes, no one’s ever done a book on American Indian Ghost stories. Non-Indian

people say the reason for this is because Indian people don’t open up to them.

I’ve been able to do this, respectfully. I always send the American Indian people the

copy, prior to its being printed so they can make adjustments in case I didn’t do it

correctly. Very rarely do I hear back from them.


I go to the different pueblos on feast days and set up a booth to sell my books. I get

all kinds of native people coming up to me, wanting to buy my books. I love this; it sends

chills up my spine.


Some older people say, “ We don’t like ghost stories”. I say, “It’s fine if you don’t

like them but they do exist right”? They say, “Yes, but we don’t like reading about them

and we don’t believe in Halloween”. I say, “That’s your opinion but there are a lot of kids

who do”. It’s a personal thing for them but not for the over all native culture.

I’ll give them examples of why children need this. Number one being education. I get

kids to read, to explore their own culture and go beyond their boundaries. When the

elders start seeing the benefits, it’s like a flower unfolding. They say, “I can see how

you’re using this as a positive tool”.


Q. Antonio, what are you working on now and what’s on the horizon?

A. My most recent book is Colorado Ghost Stories. I am in the process of completing

Utah and Wyoming Ghost Stories. I’ve tried to cover all the Western states.

Next there will be an anthology of ghost stories of the West. I’ll take eight of the best

stories from each of my books I’ve published and put them in an Anthology. I’ll be

adding a few new stories as well.


Concurrently with this I’m redoing my American Indian Ghost Stories book. I’m

working on a new cover and doubling the page volume. All of the pueblos I’d missed in

the last book will be included in this one. New Mexico Ghost Stories volume two is

coming out as well.


I have two books in mind for the future, about subjects no one has ever done before.

They’re a secret right now.


Q. Anything else?

A. I’d like to say, that my books are different than any other books ever written about

ghost stories. This is because they are all one–on-one interviews, with people who have

had first hand encounters with ghosts or spirits. I get right to the story.

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